Ted Younger Playing Electric Mandolin with a Big Band 1947

Ted Younger playing mandolin with an unknown big band in 1947 or 1948, Springfield, Massachusetts. Younger grew up in the vaudeville circuits playing and dancing in a variety song and dance act involving his whole family. After the war he often worked as a musician.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Joe and Ted Younger 1936: Mandolin and Tap Dance

A publicity still for the the Younger family, who traveled all over the country working several vaudeville circuits in the 1920's-1940's as "The Grant Family," an act that involved "hillbilly" acting, comedy, music and dancing. Joe and Ted younger did several tap numbers together as part of these shows.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

The Grant Family: Vaudeville Song Dance and Comedy Act, 1936

A publicity still for the the Younger family, who traveled all over the country working several vaudeville circuits in the 1920's-1940's as "The Grant Family," an act that involved "hillbilly" acting, comedy, music and dancing.

From left to right Joe and Ted (dance and traps), Marie (mandolin), and Jack Younger (harmonica).

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

1937 Vaudeville Music and Tap Dance Act: The Grant Family

The whole Younger family performing in a vaudeville song and dance number as "The Grant Family," an act that involved acting, comedy, music and dancing. To the left are John Younger (Barney Grant) and Ted Younger tapping, to the left playing in the band are Jack and Marie Younger (Ted's Parents) and his older brother Joe.

The Younger family traveled all over the country working several vaudeville circuits in the 1920's-1940's as "The Grant Family," an act that involved "hillbilly" acting, comedy, music and dancing.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

A Novelty Vaudeville Dance Act, Early 1920's

A publicity still of Ted Younger's parents, part of a vaudeville act in the early 1920's which involved dancing and posing in marble-statue costumes. The whole Younger family including Ted worked many vaudeville circuits as "The Grant Family," an act that involved acting, comedy, music and dancing.

The back of the photo reads: "The Younger's, Artistic Posing and Balancing." It was taken at the Orpheum Studio, Sounth Bend, Indiana.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

A Novelty Vaudeville Dance Act, Early 1920's

A publicity still of Ted Younger's parents, part of a vaudeville act in the early 1920's which involved dancing and posing in marble-statue costumes. The whole Younger family including Ted worked many vaudeville circuits as "The Grant Family," an act that involved acting, comedy, music and dancing.

The back of the photo reads: "The Younger's, Artistic Posing and Balancing." It was taken at the Orpheum Studio, Sounth Bend, Indiana.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

4th General Hospital Set Up for a USO Show, 1943

A photograph that was sent to Ted Younger's brother Barney Grant, a musician and comedian in the USO. It shows a war hospital set up for a USO show. Lining each balcony are patients and nurses looking down onto what appears to be a makeshift stage.

The accompanying letter, dated May 10, 1943, from a Colonel at the headquarters of the 22nd port expresses appreciation for the good show, saying that it was a "morale booster."

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Barney Grant's USO Performer ID Card

Barney Grant (real name John Younger) was Ted Younger's brother and toured extensively with USO shows both domestically and in the European theater.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

USO War Bond Sales Show, Performers and Pit Orchestra

Barney Grant (on stage with guitar) was Ted Younger's brother and toured extensively with USO shows both domestically and in the European theater.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Rose Marie and Willard Crow

Rose Marie and Willard Crow on their wedding day in the late 1930s. They met at a "mixer" on the University of Washington campus around 1935, where they danced all night together. Rose Marie tells the story of meeting her husband in her transcribed oral history.

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl Crow

Interview with Rose Marie Crow: How She Met Her Husband Dancing

Date of interview: April 11, 2010
Interviewee: Rose Marie Crow
Interviewer: Cheryl Crow (Rose Marie’s Granddaughter)
Birth year of interviewee: 1917
Permissions: Oral, given at beginning of interview.
Description: Below are excerpts about dance and music in the 1930’s and 1940’s, drawn from a larger oral life history given by Rose Marie Crow. All deletions are indicated parenthetically, and a brief summary of the deleted content is listed. Items deleted were lengthy digressions about other memories (jobs, school) of less pertinence to the VJEB project.

The interview began with a reading of the VJEB user agreement and the ascertainment of consent for use of the interview on the project website.

Rose Marie Crow: I agree to this content being used for any purpose.

Interviewer: On the website?

Rose Marie Crow: On the website.

Interviewer: So that’s that. When were you born?

Rose Marie Crow: Well I was born August 26, 1917.

Interviewer: Alright

Rose Marie Crow: And therefore the age of ninety-two I am rather surprised to still be here! (laughs)

Interviewer: (laughs) You’re doing great! (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: If I may say so! (laughs)

Interviewer: Yay! (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: Oh dear (laughs)


(edited out: discussion of memories trip to Europe taken by Rose Marie and husband Willard Crow in the 1970s)

Interviewer: So, way back when you met grandpa [Willard Crow]

Rose Marie Crow: Yes

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about that? How you met him, where you were? (laughs)

(edited out: description of how Rose Marie first went to college in California and then came to Seattle to attend the University of Washington)

Rose Marie Crow: Mary Lou [a friend] was part of a sorority, and they had sorority dances. And once in a while I’d get exposed to a young man, you know, and so I met some young boys that way, one was a lawyer, yeah, he was studying law, Bob, he was about six foot two

Interviewer: Hmm

Rose Marie Crow: And then Bill Dansey was his friend, and he was about five foot nine, maybe, so I had those two boys that I went with.

Interviewer: And so would you go with them to the parties?

Rose Marie Crow: Well I think I must have, because you see it was through Mary Lou.

Interviewer: Ok

Rose Marie Crow: She was the connection. And so, um, I think that I went because of that.

(edited out: details about the men) Interview resumes with a memory of a trip to a dance at the University of Washington Campus in Seattle.

Rose Marie Crow: It’s snowing, and we decided that we [Rose Marie and her good friend Betty] wanted to go to the mixer, the big dance. Her father was very kind and would drive us, and particularly if we could get a ride home. So, he drives us over, and Mary Lou—Mary Lou made these beautiful blouses, and she’d made me a beautiful blue satin long sleeved blouse, with a little black bow here [points to collar].

Interviewer: Wow

Rose Marie Crow: And so I’m wearing this to the dance. Here comes this guy [Willard Crow]. Would I like to dance? Well, yeah, you know, you don’t know a single soul there, so you’re just as willing to dance with one as another. Well (laughs), well he’s just about the cutest thing I ever looked at (laughs).

Interviewer: Awwwww!

Rose Marie Crow: Well, he just was so cocky!

Interviewer: HA

Rose Marie Crow: He was just plain cocky, and I just adored it.

Interviewer: (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: And he never, he never stopped the whole evening

Interviewer: Wow

Rose Marie Crow: He never left my side the whole evening. When it was time to go home he didn’t have a car. He didn’t have any money. His dad ran a, a lumber yard up in Monroe, you know, up here just a few, maybe an hour’s drive. So, this boy asks Betty if he can take her home, and he says “yes,” that would be alright. And, then I don’t know who had the courage to say, “Can you take me home?” because I was just on the way, I was on the way from the campus, you had to go right by where I was living, on up to Capitol hill to where she lived, so it wasn’t, we weren’t asking any big favor.

Interviewer: Right

Rose Marie Crow: But it was, it was awfully kind that we didn’t have to walk through all that ice and snow, so Willard [who would later become her husband] thought that would be alright, and he would walk home— and he had to walk way up to 52nd which is beyond the university. So anyway, he must have gotten my phone number because how else could he get in touch with me, you know. So then, I began going with him.

(Edited out: description of a job she had and living situation she had taking care of a family, living in their basement)

Interviewer: So, after you met up the first time at the dance, how would you meet up again and where would you go?

Rose Marie Crow: Well, uh, you know there were school dances.

Interviewer: Did the dances have like a live band there? Do you remember any bands?

Rose Marie Crow: I don’t remember what they had for music.

Interviewer: Ok

Rose Marie Crow: I’m sorry, I don’t remember

Interviewer: Oh, that’s ok.

Rose Marie Crow: Anyway, Mr. Crow was, was . . . what is the word, determined. (laughs)

Interviewer: (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: Anyway, he wanted to see me again. So, anyway, well then Jimmy is coming in and out of this, dilemma, you know.

(Edited out: more descriptions of the men she dated…someone else who also lived in a boarding house at the time…)

Rose Marie Crow: Willard came from a good, solid family, and honorable, and so forth, and this other guy [Jimmy] lived in the same boarding house where I did.

Interviewer: Was it common to be going with multiple people at the same time?

Rose Marie Crow: Yeah, I think we all did. Well, we were hunting. You see, that one—
the little one that went to Florida—he was graduating you see, and when you begin to graduate, you begin to think about marriage. You don’t just jump into it, but you begin to think about it, and of course Bob was the same way because he was in the law. They were five years older than I was you see, and so, so they were, they were thinking about, settling down, whereas I wasn’t anywhere close to it, you know.

Interviewer: So, so most of the time when people were doing that “hunting,” like you said, it was at dances, or that kind of thing?

Rose Marie Crow: Well, dances, the school gave the dances. I think they must have been free or something, because, you know, kids don’t have money, or lots of them don’t. Going with Betty, see, if her dad would take us, then chances were that someone would bring [drive] us home.

Interviewer: Right. And would you, would each person dance with lots of different people, or would you just dance with the person you were going with?

Rose Marie Crow: The night I met Willard I didn’t dance with anyone else I don’t believe.

Interviewer: Wow

Rose Marie Crow: Well, he (laughs), I can only say he was so cocky (laughs)

Interviewer: (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: It was just the dearest thing I’ve ever seen. I guess I never knew . . . that Jimmy had been a very very unsettled person, he wasn’t cocky, and a lot of the others weren’t cocky either. So here comes Mr. Crow [Willard] (laughs), eyes dancing, six feet tall, good dancer. Oh, good dancer! He was a nice dancer. So, he then asked me, asked to take me home [from the dance], and he was kind.

Then later, I was working for the other manager of this business school, and I’m way out north of town, and she wants me to clean out her fruit closet. Well of course I envisioned washing endless jars in hot soapy water and rinsing and draining and drying them and putting them back on the shelf. Well, Willard said “well I’ll come over and help you,” and so he comes over, and he got them clean.

Interviewer: How long after you met grandpa did you get married to him?

Rose Marie Crow: Three years

Interviewer: Three years, wow, that’s a long . . . well, he was older, right?

Rose Marie Crow: no, he was born in May, and I was born the same year in August.

Interviewer: So you went from being 18-21 together

Rose Marie Crow: Pretty much

Interviewer: So, did you go to lots of dances during that time?

Rose Marie Crow: No, we didn’t. We went to some occasionally, but see once you leave college . . .

Interviewer: Right

Rose Marie Crow: People aren’t tossing out dances so much, at least at that time they weren’t. But now, well, I don’t know. At that time I think those things were free. They were called, oh, what were they called? They had a name. Mixer. It was called a mixer.

Interviewer: And they were popular?

Rose Marie Crow: Yes, they were popular. Everybody was willing to give it a whirl. Yeah, you never knew what you might get.

Interviewer: Did anyone teach anyone how to dance? Like you said that Grandpa was a good dancer but how did he learn?

Rose Marie Crow: Well, I had known how to dance. Let’s see . . . I don’t know when I learned to dance. I know that I knew, I knew when I went down to California. So I must have known when I was seventeen, how to dance.

Interviewer: Did they teach it in school?

Rose Marie Crow: I don’t remember that they did.

Interviewer: Hmm. Everyone just learned.

Rose Marie Crow: I must have just gone, and danced.

Interviewer: Was it the Charleston?

Rose Marie Crow: No, it wasn’t the Charleston. It was, you know, when you face each other and then turn away, and then face each other again. Waltzing up and down the floor, you know. That kind of thing was what we were doing. And after we were married I worked at the Showboat Theater. We lived about half way up the block from the Showboat Theater, from the campus, it ran through from Lake Washington to Lake Union.

Interviewer: Oh, the Montlake Cut?

Rose Marie Crow: Yes, yes, the Montlake cut. Seems like we went to dances quite often, but I don’t think it must have taken any money because Willard just didn’t have any money.

Interviewer: And it was different kinds of music?

Rose Marie Crow: Yeah, there would be all kinds of music.

Interviewer: Do you remember whether it was jazz?

Rose Marie Crow: Well it must have been jazz, it’s what was popular at that time.

Interviewer: Right.

Rose Marie Crow: That was the thing.

Interviewer: A big band?

Rose Marie Crow: I don’t think it was a big band, I don’t think there was money for big bands.

Interviewer: Oh right

Rose Marie Crow: That was a low time for money, very low time. I don’t know what the music was.

Interviewer: Did they play records?

Rose Marie Crow: Well, they could have, but I don’t . . . You know, if I was looking at Willard, I wasn’t looking at seeing who was making the music (laughs).

Interviewer: (laughs)

Rose Marie Crow: I couldn’t take my eyes off his brown eyes. (laughs)

Interviewer: Awwwww (laughs) That’s sweet!

Rose Marie Crow: Aww, I think that’s cute.

Interviewer: He was handsome. (laughs) Wow.

Rose Marie Crow: But he had to stick it out, because there was Jimmy, and there was a whole bunch standing in line. But, well, he was able to do things. Jimmy was very musical. He was very musical, and he composed music, and that appealed to me very much. But he would turn around in the middle of the street and walk off and leave me alone. And, I’m telling you: I’m not going to marry that kind of creature, no siree bob. I’m not. I’ve seen my mother be deserted, and I don’t want anything of it, not anything of it. And Willard was pretty determined! You know, he doesn’t give up easily! (laughs).

Interviewer: No! So, how did you make up your mind to see just grandpa, or marry him?

Rose Marie Crow: Well, I remember one night, my bookkeeper—I worked for an insurance company, and once or twice a month we’d have to work until 11 or 12 o clock at night in order to get the books finished—so one night I’m sitting in the office and the bookkeeper is having dinner or something, and I think Jimmy comes down and rattles around and kind of. Offers, saying, “you gotta make up your mind, I’m five years older that you and I haven’t got as long to look as you have.” So anyway, he came into the office and gave me a good talking to and left. And then, my friend came back and we were both working on the books and here comes Willard, and he’s saying, “It’s almost time for you to make up your mind.” I rather imagine he could have said that. That night probably he was aroused thinking I may lose her, and I better state my . . . you know, my agreement about what we’re doing here. In the meantime I was going with a guy who lived at the boarding house who had a car, and of course that was a big thing in that time to have a car, because not everybody had one. So I would go out with him, but then you see, he was a rascal.

(edited out – more details of various other men)

Interviewer: Wait, so, how did grandpa, did grandpa ask you to marry him, like now they make a big deal of asking, you know down on one knee, did he do that?

Rose Marie Crow: Oh no, oh no, no. We just, we just decided to get married. And we had the wedding in Seattle. The girl that drove me to the boat to get on the ferry played the piano. So, I asked her if she’d like to play the piano for my wedding, and so she did. But there was only one thing [piano] that she could use, and it was a place in town, in Seattle, so we had to have the wedding where she could play the music. Well we didn’t want to ask my stepfather to give me away, but there was a Mr. and Mrs. Stoakes and they were friends of my mothers, and so Mr. Stoakes would give me away. So that was nice.

(The remainder of the interview proceeds on to later family history and is omitted here)

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl Crow

Brief Interview With Norma Miller: Savoy Ballroom Dancer and Performer

Kelly Porter

Norma Miller

Script Tease

1946, Agnus Pottage on Set of Duel in the Sun. She and another stenographer or as they called themselves a "script tease," sun bathe by the pool.

Ellen Murray

Ellen Murray

At the Bar

Agnus and the boys at Hollywood's Bar of Music.

Ellen Murray

Ellen Murray

Bar of Music

A keepsake envelope containing the photos of Agnus and friends at the bar.

Ellen Murray

Ellen Murray

Queen Agnus

Agnus Pottage, "Queen of California" 1930's. Winner of a popularity contest, won herself a trip to Australia.

Ellen Murray

Ellen Murray

Frankie Manning and Judy's last dance at Swing 46, NYC

Frankie Manning and Judy Pritchard's last dance together at George Gee's birthday party at Swing 46, NYC, March 31, 2009. It was an impromptu 60 second dance right next to the table where they were seated-- not a solo spotlight dance, but rather a spur of the moment intimate social interchange between two people who loved each other. This photo was also featured at the last page in the Frankie95 handout at his celebration in May, 2009.

Note from VJEB: Frankie Manning was an original Savoy Ballroom Dancer, choreographer of Whitey's Lindy Hoppers with numerous film and stage credits. He passed away April 27, 2009, just weeks short of his 95th birthday. While this photo obviously was not taken in the 1930's, it depicts one of that era's finest and most well known dancers, in one of his last public dances.

Jerry Feldman

Jerry Feldman

Lottie and Chester, Drafted.

A portrait of Lottie Brady and her husband and favorite dance partner Chester, just after he was drafted into the army in WWII. The photo was hand-colorized by Lottie herself.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

The Bride and the Band, Polish Wedding Parade, Detroit, 1944

Lottie's sister Julie leaving their parents house on her wedding day. It was Polish tradition that the bride be paraded to the church by a band and her relatives. You can just make out the accordion player to the right of the frame. Lottie relates her experiences dancing in the 1940's in Detroit in her oral history interview.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Wally dancing in the Park with Lottie's Friend, early '40s

Lottie Brady's brother Wally and one of Lottie's friends dancing in the park, possibly on Belle Isle. Lottie relates her experiences dancing in the 1940's in Detroit in her oral history interview. The photo was hand-colorized by Lottie herself.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Boys Swing Dancing in the Park, Early 1940's

Lottie Brady's brother Wally and a friend dancing and "horsing around" in a park, possibly on Belle Isle. Lottie relates her experiences dancing in the 1940's in Detroit in her oral history interview. The photo was hand-colorized by Lottie herself.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Lottie and Friend dancing near the Warsaw Park Dance Pavilion, early '40s

Lottie Brady swing dancing with a friend in the early 1940's. This was taken near the Dance Pavilion at Warsaw Park, which was a center for the ethnic Polish community in Detroit and Hamtramck where Lottie grew up. Her parents were Polish immigrants, and she spoke Polish in the home as a child. Lottie relates her experiences dancing in the 1940's in Detroit in her oral history interview.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

"Two Hour Parking": Lottie and Chester out to Dance, early '40s

Lottie Brady pictured with her late husband and favorite dance partner Chester in the early 1940's on their way out to dance. This was taken when they were dating. Lottie relates her experiences dancing with her husband in her oral history interview.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Lottie Brady and Her Husband Chester, early '40s

Lottie Brady pictured with her husband and favorite dance partner Chester in the early 1940's. During high school and immediately afterward, Lottie worked in a portrait studio hand-colorizing prints. This, like any hand-colored photos in the collection were done by her. Lottie relates her experiences dancing in the 1940's with her husband in her oral history interview.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

1926 Bon Marche ad boasts smart, boyish looks for the young charleston dancer

An ad for the "senior miss" line from a clothing boutique in Grand Rapids taken from Donald Russ' 1926 South High School Yearbook. For the collegiate who is at it "from early morn to charleston by-the-clock" they boast "just the smart, boyish or exquisitely sylphen affairs that youth demands."

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

"Competing with the Silver Flask and Jazz Orchestra," Berkey and Gay Furniture Ad, 1926.

A furniture company ad from the back of Donald Russ' 1926 South High School Yearbook. Clearly aimed at parents, the ad suggests that the only way to keep youth away from the dangers of "the silver flask and the jazz orchestra" is to furnish your home more comfortably so they will stick around.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Description of the Marema Dance Pavilion in 1926 Yearbook

A description of curious junk band, "Boon's Melody Bloodhounds" at the the Marema Dance Pavilion in the "favorite places" section of Donald Russ' 1926 South High School Yearbook. The names of several of the musicians can be paired with students photographed in the same yearbook-- this was likely a student band. Given the strange array of 'instruments,' one can only imagine what they may have sounded like.

Transcription: MAREMA DANCE PAVILION This charming spot furnishes delightful moments for the lovers of terpsichorean pastimes. The music that the dancers sway to is delivered by Boon's Melody Bloodhounds, composed of Frank Engli, who plays on a curious instrument made principally of an ice cream freezer and two shoe trees; Enola Baribeau, who wrings music from a comb and brush; Verna Rohde, who carries the air with the Jew's Harp; and Ardis Bisbee, who, ably holding her own by sheer noise, mans the chimes. With Adeline Shrink and Evelyn James, the two accordion sisters, much jazz is set forth.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

1926: Students Posing in a Chorus Line.

Several students pose in a chorus line formation outside of South High School, Grand Rapids, MI. Photo taken from the 1926 yearbook of Donald Russ.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

1926: Two Students Dance the Charleston

Two Students Dance the Charleston outside of South High School, Grand Rapids, MI. Photo taken from the 1926 yearbook of Donald Russ.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 6 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's. A lot of close and informal dancing going on. The owner of the photo, Dorothy Porter, who attended the party was unsure whether this particular moment represented a hug or a dance. Given the amount of alcohol consumed at this party, we decided to go with 'a rather sloppy dance.'

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 5 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's. A lot of close and informal dancing going on. This is a photo of all of the party guests enjoying themselves, along with several drinks, and what appears to be the world's most wood-paneled basement.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 4 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's with a lot of close and informal dancing going on. This photo shows dancers/guests imbibing at "the world's shortest bar."

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 3 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's. A lot of close and informal dancing going on. This looks like a party guest kicking up her heels. There is no way to tell if the gentleman to the left is a dance partner, but he certainly seems interested.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 2 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's. A lot of close and informal dancing going on. This looks like a party guest kicking up her heels alone.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dance at a House Party, Late 1940's -- 1 of 6

One of several photos from a small album shot at a house party in the late 40's or early 50's. A lot of close and informal dancing going on.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter as a High School Senior, 1937

Dorothy Porter as a high school senior in 1937. Dorothy describes her experiences of dancing to major jazz orchestras and skipping school to attend dance marathons in her oral history video. Here is the face to go along with those stories.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter and her Sister Helen, Silliness out on the Town

Dorothy Porter and her sister Helen out on the town, and showing off their lovely . . . legs, for the camera. The fact that they are wearing stockings suggests that this is well after WWII.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter in her Ballet Costume (a parrot), 1928

Dorothy Porter in her point shoes (which she eventually learned to tap dance in upon insistence of her dance teacher. Dorothy describes her experiences of Mrs. Mansfield's dance classes, learning ballet and tap in her oral history video. Here she is outfitted as parrot for the ballet. She was forced to give up lessons when the Great Depression hit.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter in Childhood Dance Costumes, mid 1920's 3 of 3

A young Dorothy Porter in costume before a dance recital. Dorothy describes her experiences of Mrs. Mansfield's dance classes, learning ballet and tap in her oral history video. Here she seems to be outfitted in historical garb and as a clown. She was forced to give up lessons when the Great Depression hit.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter in Childhood Dance Costumes, mid 1920's 2 of 3

A young Dorothy Porter in costume before a dance recital. Dorothy describes her experiences of Mrs. Mansfield's dance classes, learning ballet and tap in her oral history video. Here she seems to be outfitted as a bellhop and a pirate. She was forced to give up lessons when the Great Depression hit.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Dorothy Porter in Childhood Dance Costumes, mid 1920's 1 of 3

A young Dorothy Porter in costume before a dance recital. Dorothy describes her experiences of Mrs. Mansfield's dance classes, learning ballet and tap in her oral history video. She was forced to give up lessons when the Great Depression hit.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Pomona College, 1944. Radio and a cigarette.

Rosemary Taylor and Lee Covey relaxing in the ladies dorms of Pomona College during WWII.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Pomona College, 1944. Wine, music and fun.

A glass of we don't know what, but it sure looks like it must have been good. Records, drinks and life in the Pomona College Dorms during WWII are described by Rosemary Taylor in her oral history.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Yet More Bridge, Drinks, Cigarettes and Music, Pomona College Dorms, 1944

Pomona College, 1944. Recreation in the women's dorms-- a bridge game, a few drinks, a little music, good friends.

From left to right: Nancy Harmon, Rosemary Taylor, Fran St. Clair, Lee Covey

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

More Bridge, Drinks, Cigarettes and Music, Pomona College Dorms, 1944

Pomona College, 1944. Recreation in the women's dorms-- a bridge game, a few drinks, a little music, good friends.

From left to right: Lee Covey, Rosemary Taylor, Nancy Harmon, Fran St. Clair

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Bridge, Drinks, Cigarettes and Music, Pomona College Dorms, 1944

Pomona College, 1944. Recreation in the women's dorms-- a bridge game, a few drinks, a little music, good friends.

From left to right: Lee Covey, Rosemary Taylor, Fran St. Clair

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Charlotte Stearn, music lover, 1944

Charlotte Stearn was the owner of the record player in the Pomona College women's dorms described in Rosemary Taylor's oral history interview. Many listening and bridge parties were had on the floor of her room.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Rosemary Taylor: Dance, College and Music During WWII

Transcript of Interview with Rosemary Taylor for
Voices of the Jazz Era Ballroom Project

Date: November 26, 2009, Seattle, WA
Interviewer: Kelly C. Porter
Interviewee: Rosemary Taylor of Manhattan Beach, CA
Others present: grandsons Joe and Andrew Loviska, daughter Nancy Loviska
Birth Year of Interviewee: 1924
Permissions: Signed copy of VJEB participant agreement
Technical Note: This interview was recorded on a digital camera that unfortunately and inexplicably shorted out during the interview, so some of the original interview (sadly some of the better parts) were not recorded. I revisited these with Rosemary after borrowing a recorder belonging to the family since she was only in town until the following day. The time of the technical failure is noted in the transcript.


Kelly: So we are here with Rosemary Taylor and her family. And Rosemary, if it’s not too impolite to ask, what year were you born?

Rosemary: [laughs] No I don’t mind your asking. I was born in 1924.

Kelly: Excellent. So Andy [Loviska] has told me about a few stories from your youth which you’ve shared with the family. One of the ones that I thought was interesting, was about meeting your husband. Andy was telling me about how you met and ended up traveling the country quite a bit. I was curious to know, since you spent so much of your young life in different places, if you and your husband went out dancing much in all of those different places, and what that might have been like.

Rosemary: Well we met at a party—we had mutual friends. But Ed was not an enthusiastic dancer. His mother made him go to dancing school in Junior High and that was kind of the kiss of death. [all laugh] But, he was willing to do it if . . . enough pressure was applied [more laughter].

Kelly: Okay.

Rosemary: So we dated for, I guess it was almost a year, and then he got a job in Tennessee, so that’s why we were doing the cross-country thing. We flew to Tennessee, but on the way back we had accumulated so much stuff having been there for nearly 2 and a half years that we drove back to California. And, well of course in those days it was an interesting trip. It was an interesting trip crossing country because there were no freeways; there were just two-lane roads.

So he [Ed] hooked up the trailer and [laughs] . . .

Kelly: And it all stayed together? [all laugh]

Rosemary: You know one night as we were tooling along some country road, the wheel came off the trailer [all laugh].

Kelly: Oh no

Rosemary: And we couldn’t find it in the dark [all laugh]. So we spent an uneasy night with the cows out in the field . . . well, I mean we were in the car . . . but it made for an interesting trip [laughs]

Kelly: Did somebody come and rescue you the next day? Did you have to flag someone down?

Rosemary: You know, I don’t actually remember whether Ed was just able to jack it up or . . . but eventually it was repaired. It was really something of a pilgrimage in those days. An adventure.

Kelly: There is a wedding picture, or I guess it’s an engagement picture of you on the table downstairs in the dining room [of her daughter’s house]. How old were you in that picture?

Rosemary: Well, I was just out of college, so I must have been . . . I guess about 22.

Kelly: 22, okay. So that trip would have been in the late 40’s. And college, you graduated from Pomona College, right?

Rosemary: Yes, that’s right.

Kelly: I was really curious, because knowing that your husband wasn’t much of a dancer, people (at least nowadays) make a big deal out of wedding dances; did you even get a wedding dance with your husband? What was that like?

Rosemary: No! No! [laughs] I didn’t. [all laugh] We had the wedding reception. My mother was teaching at what was then San Diego State College, and there was a little house on the campus called Scripps Cottage which was used for various and sundry social occasions. So we had our wedding reception there, sans any kind of music that I can remember, actually. [all laugh] Maybe we had records or something, but I honestly don’t remember any music at all [all laugh].That was kind of farthest from our thoughts, actually. In those days things were a lot simpler, at least in our social circle. We didn’t make a big fuss.

Kelly: So your husband was traumatized by his Junior High School dance lessons. [all laugh] Do you have any memories of learning to dance, yourself?

Rosemary: Well, yes. Actually, I went to the same Junior High School dances as he did.

Kelly: Oh really? So the story goes back a bit further then?

Rosemary: [laughs] Yes, But we didn’t know each other in those days.

Kelly: So then you were at those same lessons?

Rosemary: Yes, yes. The school that I went to, which just happened to be a private school, was where the dances were. So if you were going to that school you were included in the dance lessons. Whereas Ed, and I guess a lot of the young girls too, would come in for that. And we would learn the basics. Mostly how not to step on each others toes [laughs].

Kelly: And what kinds of dances were you learning?

Rosemary: Oh, foxtrot, and the box step. Waltz I think. You know my mother used to teach dance in our home, then.

Kelly: Oh really?

Nancy: Wow, I didn’t know that!

Rosemary: Well, that was when I was 7 or 8, very young. She was a physical education teacher. It was something she did to make a little extra money on the side.

Kelly: That’s great! So do you remember seeing these lessons? Can you tell us anything about them?

Rosemary: Well I was young, that would have been in Iowa, in the 30’s, but yes, she would play records on the Victrola for the lessons, sometimes I’d crank it for her. Same dances I think, foxtrot, waltz.

Kelly: So the clientele, they came in one by one? Or was this in groups?

Rosemary: Usually one by one.

Kelly: And what kind of people were coming? Folks with two left feet like your husband? [all laugh] Or just the curious?

Rosemary: Oh all kinds. I think most were just trying to learn some of the basics so they could go out and dance and be social. Some of them got quite good. Really, though, I was so young. It’s rather hard to remember details.

Kelly: That’s no problem.

AT THIS POINT THE VIDEO RECORDER SHORTED OUT. THIS WAS NOT APPARENT UNTIL WE WERE WRAPPING UP THE FIRST INTERVIEW SESSION. APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES OF RECORDING WERE LOST. THE REMAINDER OF THE INTERVIEW WAS RECORDED ON A CAMERA BELONGING TO THE INTERVIEWEE’S FAMILY AFTER THE FAILURE WAS DETECTED, AND ATTEMPTS TO REVISIT SOME OF THE GROUND COVERED IN THE LOST PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW.

Kelly: So this is part 2 of Rosemary Taylor’s interview, and I wanted to go back to talk about some things that didn’t get recorded. [to Rosemary] Before, when you were talking about being in college during the war [WWII] you were talking about listening to records with one of your friends in the dormitory, and the kinds of music you heard there.

Rosemary: Yes, well, record players were expensive, and I didn’t have one, so I would go over to my girlfriend’s and listen to hers along with some other friends.

At that time practically all of the men were gone, because the war was on. So in terms of dance and music we didn’t have quite the same social situation as before the war. We played a lot of bridge, have a little gin, you know. In fact, some of the men’s dormitories had been given over to the girls. Funny thing, too, [laughs] because in most of the girls dorms there were bars on the windows of the first story—so nothing untoward would be going on [all laugh]. But not so with the men’s rooms . . . so there were a lot of footprints and traffic outside those windows during that time [all laugh]. It was a strange time to be in college. I think a lot of women got an education then who otherwise might not have, just because there was space for them with all of the men gone.

Of course we did study once and a while [laughs]. And there was no TV, so there wasn’t that distraction. So we just tried to amuse ourselves—I mean we played sports during the day, I played tennis. I don’t feel that we felt deprived as far as entertainment was concerned, but it was very different during the war.

Kelly: That’s fascinating to me. I suppose things would have to be very different with most of the young men being drafted, socially I mean, as you said.

So when you were enjoying the social entertainment you did have, listening to records and playing bridge in your girlfriend’s cramped little dormitory, you were telling me that one recording in particular that made a big impression on you.

Rosemary: Yes. Well, she had a recording of Billie Holiday singing “Strange Fruit.” It did make a big impression on me, because it was a form of music that I hadn’t really heard before.

Kelly: Well, it’s a powerful song. It was really interesting to hear you talk about this because it was something of a race anthem at the time, being about the horror of the lynchings that were going on in the south. So, when you say that it was a kind of music that you hadn’t heard before, are you talking about how it was jazz, or I suppose blues? Or the fact that it was a black vocalist?

Rosemary: Simply that the household that I grew up in, we didn’t really listen to many musical recordings. We listened to programs on the radio, we listened to spoken word, but not much music. I’d really never heard anything like it.

Andrew: Do you remember the experience of listening to music back then being fairly segregated? I mean, white people not listening to music by black artists and vice versa?

Rosemary: Well, I don’t know that I can speak to that, only for myself and my family. As I said, we didn’t listen to a lot of music on the radio growing up, and I grew up in, I guess what was a fairly white suburban situation. So no, I suppose not. I just don’t think I was aware, or had really been exposed to a lot of music, as I said, and given my background, I just hadn’t heard anything like that.

Kelly: I wanted to ask you, too, to talk a little bit about “the roadhouse.” Which you mentioned before as another place that was very different from your experience of dance and music at school.

Rosemary: [laughs] Yes that’s true. [pause]

Kelly: Well, let’s start at the beginning then, you were describing how it was far away, up in the mountains and hard to get to. So how did you get up there? [laughs]

Rosemary: Well, that was a time of gas rations, things were tight. But occasionally we could manage to borrow a car. There were some parents who had moved to Claremont (CA) to be closer to their kids at [Pomona] college. And they would occasionally lend a car. That was pretty much the only way to get up there, unless you were going into LA [Los Angeles], then you could take a bus, but not all the way up to Mt. Baldy.

Kelly: Ahh, so it was on Mt. Baldy, then.

Rosemary: Yes, on Mt. Baldy.

Kelly: So you’d get a car, and how many people would go?

Rosemary: Oh, usually a couple of couples [all laugh]. We’d fill up the car, anyway.

Kelly: So tell me about the roadhouse, itself, what was it like there?

Rosemary: Well we’d go up and dance, and have a beer or two. We weren’t, well . . . I was going to say that we weren’t really heavy drinkers, but I can only speak for myself [all laugh]. All I can say is that we always managed to get back down the mountain safely [laughs]. We made it down . . .

It was very different than the other places we went dancing, the formals with gloves and gowns and everything. It was very rustic . It was unique being up in the mountains. And when the winter came there was often snow up there. It was really just a way for us to get away from our small town, really be somewhere else. There was a jukebox, and people would dance swing and two step. It was more casual, more easy. A lot of fun.

[INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: in the portion of the interview lost in when the camera shorted out. Rosemary, in comparing the experience of the roadhouse to more formal affairs stated “Well naturally we preferred the roadhouse” to great laughter]

Kelly: So we talked a little bit about music, but dance was also in film all over the place at that time. Do you have any memories of dance in film that made an impression on you at that time?

Rosemary: Well, just a few years before I went to college, 1939, that there were a lot of good films that came out: Gone With the Wind, Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, I loved him [laughs]. But as far as the sort of variety show or musical theater entertainment films, I saw less of those, the ones that stick out in my mind were Busby Berkeley’s. We didn’t go to the movies as much as you might think, even though they were inexpensive in those days, but Saturdays we sometimes would go for a matinee.

Kelly : Just out of curiosity, how much do you remember paying to see those films when you were in High School?

Rosemary: Oh the small places were a dime. And if you wanted to go into the city for one of the first-round films, it could be as much as a quarter. That was the really nice places [all laugh].

Kelly: So it sounds like you went into the city for entertainment sometimes, the city being San Diego.

Rosemary: Oh yes. We’d go there most frequently to shop, actually. There were no suburban malls and shops everywhere like there is now. So you’d go put on a dress, maybe a hat, maybe gloves as we got older—going out was a bit different then, even during the daytime, you really dressed anytime you went out in public. We would go into San Diego and shop at Marston’s department store, which was a good department store downtown. And there was this little place that had great sandwiches, and chocolate . . . I don’t know what you would call them . . . ice cream sodas. That was a place to go if you wanted to really have a nice soda, or tea and en English muffin.

So I guess downtown was the focus for shopping for us. The entertainment was more down by the beaches. Mission Bay [San Diego], and those places. There was an amusement park at Mission Bay with roller coasters, and there was a huge dance space there. That’s where all of the big bands played when they came into town. Occasionally we’d go there.

I also belonged to a young women’s rowing club , then, that was based in Mission Bay, and we’d often have slumber parties out there. There was always a chaperon, but she would often just go into her room and close the door, and so we could slip off and row up to the amusement park see the dance space there, maybe ride a roller coaster and then sneak back. All innocent fun.

Kelly: So you talked a little bit about shopping, but fashion-wise when you were a young woman in college you were living in a time when the war had a huge effect on what you could wear, with fabric being rationed, and women painting their legs for lack of stockings and so forth. Did that ever bother you or affect your experience of going out?

Rosemary: Well I refused to paint my legs [all laugh]. Some of my friends did. So if we couldn’t manage to get stockings we would just go without for the most part. That was a big change. Other than that, clothes were not as difficult. I mean, I remember being able to buy what I wanted along those lines. But it’s true there were big silk shortages. We just kind of cut back on what we bought and made do.

Kelly: So looking back on those days, do you wish people dressed up a little more now, or a little finer, as you had to do growing up?

Rosemary: [laughs] You know I think I’m okay with things as they are today. I never cared for the really formal wear, anyway. We didn’t wear pants much in those days, sometimes shorts in the summer, so I actually like our more casual approach now. It’s more comfortable. I think back then we just had to spend so much more time on our appearance, hair too.

Kelly: Tell me about the hair. What was that production like?

Rosemary: Oh lots and lots of pin curls. Lots of curlers being used. If you could you would sleep on them. And if you were going to a formal it was a big production—lots of time in front of the mirror, lots of time discussing what dress you were going to wear, not that we had that much of a selection [laughs]. Cosmetics were simpler, though, just powder, eye shadow, lipstick. That was pretty much it. Everybody looked very nice. And of course the men that were ‘in uniform’ [making quotes with her fingers] were in uniform.

Kelly: Do you remember there being a lot of that? Seeing uniforms at formal dances?

Rosemary: Oh yes. There were several military bases very close by where I went to college, so there were always lots of service men. And then the navy men would sometimes come up from San Diego, friends of ours. They always looked very nice, very handsome.

Kelly: So we’ve been talking mostly about California, but you came originally from Iowa City. When did you move to California with your mother?

Rosemary: I was 8 [1934].

Kelly: And you stayed in California through college, and after that you moved to Tennessee with your husband for a few years, correct?

Rosemary: Yes.

Kelly: So we started talking about this just a bit at the beginning of the interview, but that contrast just fascinates me, because those seem like such different places to have experienced at that time, in terms of dance, music, going out, and just social life in general, I would imagine. Was that your experience of that?

Rosemary: It was a huge cultural shock [all laugh], going from a place like San Diego to a town of about 3,000 in Tennessee.

Kelly: What was the name of the town?

Rosemary: Martin. Martin, Tennessee. It had a junior college at that time, which my husband worked at. I’m sure we didn’t quite realize just how different it was at first. To begin with we were not church-goers, my husband and I, and that in itself was kind of an anomaly [all laugh].

Andrew: So it was a scandal?

Rosemary: Oh probably amongst the town, yes. It was probably a topic of conversation, but we didn’t really know about that when we first moved there.

The people were very nice, though, and I subsequently got a job working for the regional library service. We drove a bookmobile, covering 5 counties in western Tennessee. You get to know a lot of people that way. Of course all the roads were dirt around there after the war, it was fairly primitive back in the woods, very different from what we were used to in California.

Kelly: Do you remember the music or the night life being very different there? Or was that a point of similarity?

Rosemary: Well, there certainly were no night clubs in Martin [all laugh]. There were in Memphis, and we did go down to Memphis occasionally. It was interesting, too, because even in Memphis the drinking rules were different. I remember in Martin we would have to drive into Kentucky to get beer, even—though that was fairly close by. It was fairly dry. In Memphis you could actually order a cocktail [laughs].

The country music scene at that time was starting to develop in Nashville, but we didn’t get over there as much.

Andrew: So that wasn’t as prevalent in Memphis?

Rosemary: Not at the time, no, or at least not that I can recall. There probably was, well actually undoubtedly there was a music scene in Memphis but I suspect that it was more of a black music scene. I didn’t get to see much of that because it was VERY segregated down there.

Kelly: Was that a big difference from California?

Rosemary: Oh yes. Yes, absolutely. It was even noticeable in the library service that I worked for, I’m sorry to say. I mean the bookmobile, the library service really did not include the black community at all. They didn’t schedule stops in black communities.

Kelly: So how, then, was that different from you experience in California? In your everyday life there did you come into contact with African Americans, were you in a more mixed community?

Rosemary: No, not really, not where I was, anyway. I mean aside from recorded artists, and sometimes when the big bands would come through there was not much integration there either. So at least for me, and amongst my friends, there wasn’t much exposure, except for the big bands, the music.

Though there was a black community in San Diego, of course. Actually my mother, who as I said, taught dance and physical education . . . well there were some excellent modern dance programs in San Diego. Not sure I can come up with all of the names, but most of the big names in modern dance I remember seeing there. So that was something.

Andrew: I know when modern dance first came in, many people thought it was fairly strange, other-worldly. Was that your experience?

Rosemary: Well, I think because of my mother, she went to Wellesley [College], she was exposed to it. And actually I have pictures of her in programs involving modern dance there, she was very at home with it. So to me, to us, it didn’t seem strange at all.

Kelly: This may be a little tangential, but could you tell me a bit more about your mother? Because she seems like quite a women for that time: college educated, a physical education teacher, teaching dance lessons on the side, moving across the country with you.

Rosemary: Oh yes, well, she only taught the dance lessons in Iowa City, when I was little, but then we moved out to California and she got her master’s degree in physical education, and then got her job at what was then San Diego State College teaching women’s physical education. It was a teaching college, so she was essentially teaching teachers to teach. She was not what you would call an athlete, like we use the term now, but she was a very good teacher, and she loved to teach.

[looks to the ceiling, laughs] You know I ended up taking archery because of her. One of the suppliers had given her a nice bow and she passed it on to me [laughs]. I used it, too.

Kelly: So you’re deadly, this is good to know [all laugh].

Rosemary: [laughs] Yes, I suppose so. It was a nice bow, too. Make of ewe [ewe wood]. I had that for a long time.

Kelly: So do you remember your mother going out at all when you were little?

Rosemary: Well, not really, because my father was ill. That’s why he had to leave Iowa City, he was very ill with tuberculosis. So even after the progression of the illness was arrested they didn’t go dancing much in those days, he wouldn’t have been up to it. But they did eventually go out and socialize, played cards, went to dinner with friends.

Kelly: So the TB affected him pretty deeply, then?

Rosemary: [smiles] Well, he couldn’t do much strenuous work. But he was alright to go out. They loved to take trips together. He ended up working for the City of San Diego as an engineer when he was finally able to get back to California. So he was okay, physically, but not really strong. They were happy, social.

Kelly: Well I think, perhaps, because it’s getting late, and I know you have to fly out tomorrow, we can maybe leave it there, if that’s alright with you. Unless you have any other stories or thoughts that you’d like to share with us? Because we’d certainly love to hear anything else you’d like to tell us.

Rosemary: Well, this doesn’t really relate directly to music or dance, but growing up, us girls, in San Diego, one thing that we did have was a wonderful beach life. One of my friends’ family had a little cottage at Del Mar [CA] when I was in school, and all the way up through college, and we would stay there, right on the beach during the summer. During those days it was un-crowded, just sort of a nice peaceful beach existence. That, for me is just one of those unique capsule experiences that I feel happy that I got to have, that I got to do. It would be hard to reproduce now.

Kelly: Well, excellent. Rosemary, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down and talk with us today. I really do appreciate it, and I think you family enjoyed it, too [others nod]. Thanks.

Rosemary: You’re very welcome. It was fun for me, too.

Kelly Porter

Kelly Porter

Lottie and Dottie Talk Dance, Burlesque, and Radio

Kelly Porter

12-13-2009

Kelly Porter